Kevin Swanson is NOT a patriarchal-ist

Thank goodness Kevin Swanson has let us know that he is not a "patriarchal-ist."

I'm sensing some damage control from the Doug Phillips scandal. Kevin Swanson, I believe, is following on the heels of Michael Farris in declaring that patriarchy is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Swanson, in the first link, makes some clarifications for why he does not toe the patriarchal line:

It is no sin for a woman to take college level classes.

It is no sin for a woman to obtain an M.D. degree. One of our favorite presenters at our Family Economics conferences is a family whose mom is a dermatologist. And, I’ve referred to my daughter operating on her brother’s appendix (perhaps a hundred times on the conference tours across the nation).

It is no sin for my 20-year-old daughter to take to the mission field in Uganda as she has done this year.

Also, I have never believed it to be a sin for a woman to lead in civil government. I cannot believe that Deborah was sinful in her work. Nonetheless, I distinguish between de-ontological ethics and teleological ethics. This is a highly critical distinction in a hundred separate discussions.

I advocate the recently-abandoned, age-old concept of the family-based economy.

I still like the 5th commandment.

I advocate Eph. 5:22-33, and suggest that modern husbands and wives have a hard time keeping these commands. That’s why the divorce rate stands at record levels, a thousand times higher than it was in 1668.

Kevin is okay with women being educated, going on the mission field, and holding down government jobs, however, I have not once heard Kevin say that it is alright for a woman to have a leadership position in the church or for her to have a leading role in the family. I believe that Kevin runs a very fine line between complementarian and patriarchy. He may not think that a father needs to keep his daughter at home until she is married, but he does think that there are definite gender specific roles.

Here is my other concern with Kevin's rhetoric about not being a patriarchal-ist. On December 2, 2013, Kevin made a list of people he likes. He clarifies his list by saying that it is better to "define yourself by who you like." His list is:

I like Al Mohler. 

I like Franklin Graham.

I like Gene Edward Veith.

I like Mike Farris.*

I like Tedd Tripp.

I like R.C. Sproul and Jr.*

I like (liked) Johnny Cash.

I like Nathan Clark George.

I like Brian Cosby.

I like James Dobson.

I like G.I. Williamson.

I like Erwin Lutzer.

I like Jay Adams.

I like Phil Kayser.

I like John Morris.

I like Larry Pratt.

I like Ken Ham.*

I like James and Stacy MacDonald.*

I like Voddie Baucham.*

I like Carl Bobb.

I like Bo Skeen.

I like Douglas Wilson.*

I like Scott Brown.*

I like Hal and Melanie Young.

I like Martin Selbrede.

I like Norm Wakefield.

I like Brian Ray.*

I like Joe Morecraft.

I like Marvin Olasky.

I like Ray Comfort.

I like Joel Belz.

I like Geoff Botkin.*

I like Al Martin.

I like Gregg Harris.*

I like Bill Downing.

I like Joel Beeke.

I like the guy who runs SermonAudio.

I like Mike Richardson.

I like Israel Wayne.*

I like Marcus Serven.

I like the guys who run Samaritan Ministries.

I like Jeff Pollard.

I like Jason Young.

I like Frode Jensen.

I like Jeff Meyers.

I like Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler.

I like Marshall Foster.

I like John Piper.

I like Joseph Pipa.

I like Alex Kendrick.

I like Colin Gunn.

I like Sam Allison.

I like Leonard Coppes.

I like John Macarthur.

I like Jerry Bridges.

I like David Barton.

I like Gary Demar. 

And I like Jesus Christ, and people who like Jesus Christ. 

I placed an asterisk by the names that may approve patriarchy as well as those who are well known patriarchy apologists. I find it interesting that Swanson cannot name one woman independent of her husband that he likes. 

Of course, Swanson states at the end of his list that he may not agree with everything those on his "like list" adhere to. However, he starts off his list by saying that he is "defined" by these people.

So which is it Swanson? Do you agree with patriarchy or do you not? Because some of these folks would definitely define you in leaning towards it.

P.S. - I don't believe for one second that he likes all people who like Jesus Christ. He makes that very clear on his shows.

Kevin Swanson's program about recovering from sexual abuse

I had never heard of Kevin Swason until after I got done homeschooling. That's how out of touch with the Christian homeschool movement I was during my homeschooling period.

When he did a show on March 18th titled, How to Recover from Sexual Abuse, I had to listen. This program included guest Keith Dorscht from Biblical Concepts in Counseling. Here's an interesting point to make note of - at the end of the program, Keith Dorscht tells listeners how to get in touch with Biblical Concepts (www.biblicalconcepts.org - this is the URL he provides). However, when you go to that URL, it shows up through Sedo's Domain Parking and it gives someone the option to purchase that domain name. Because of this, I'm not sure how anyone who listened to Swanson's program would be able to follow up with Biblical Concepts in Counseling.

I became interested in this particular program because of my social work focus in child abuse, my past work with children who had been sexually abused, and because of my own personal experience with abuse. I admit that when I saw the title of the program I sighed and thought myself to be a glutton of punishment. (Swason's voice tends to grate on me a little - okay, a lot. But, there's nothing that a glass - or two - of wine can't cure!) I tell you this because I am passionate about helping people who have been abused.

Unexpectedly, and thankfully, there were some good ideas and thoughts on dealing with sexual abuse. What did not surprise me were some of important things that were left out and the prevailing attitude toward victims that creeps in. I transcribed* the show and am here to offer my opinions on the good and the not so good of what I heard.

The Good

1. Keith Dorscht acknowledges the fact that sexual pleasure can be experienced at any age. At the 7 minute mark he says,

"What that means is that from birth, there can be sexual stimulation, excitement, that feels good. And, you can’t stop that as a child of any age, you can’t turn that off. God wants you to have that."

And, that is true, it has been shown that babies are able to experience genital stimulation. Our bodies are hard wired to be that way.

2. Right after this remark, he continues saying,

"When some perpetrator comes in, takes advantage of that, but they also overwhelm you and you feel guilty because you know something is going on wrong. So one of the main damages is that someone at any age is experiencing something that feels pleasurable, but they’re feeling guilt. And there's a knitting together, a marrying together, of those two emotions."

Very true, too. Abusers will manipulate a victim for their own pleasure. Threats, fear or simple words such as telling the victim that this is something "special" shared between them and that no one else should know about it, are tactics used to keep the in their grasp. The victim, realizing that what this person is doing is wrong, may feel pleasure in the act. Thus, the feelings of guilt may become overwhelming.

3. As far as responding to a child who tells you that they have been sexually abuse, Dorscht says the following after the 10 minute mark:

"You can pretty much trust that they’re telling truth. Only half a percent of children actually make up a story of this. So if you’re getting signs and statements being made and strange behaviors in your child, you want to definitely consider the idea that perhaps someone has sexually abused them and get talking about that."

While there have been times when a child will lie about sexual abuse, it is very rare. If a child tells you that they have been sexually abused, always believe them.

4. Dorscht offers hope to victims of sexual abuse. Just before the 9:30 mark he says,

"There is so much hope for people who have been sexually abused. If I can say one thing on this program today and leave people with something, is that there is hope. That God can restore. He can finish the work."

There is hope for a survivor of sexual abuse. A person can be made whole again. It takes a lot of time, patience and hard work with a therapist to get there. I do believe that God can help in that healing process, however, if the person does not have a faith in God, healing can be accomplished.

The Not So Good

1. Kevin Swanson seems to think that sexual abuse did not happen as often in the 1800's compared to today. In the opening of his show, just before the 1 minuted mark he says,

"See, we have social sins now that were almost unheard of in the 1800’s. And they are common place today. The 1 in 10,000 occurrences we saw in the 1800’s, now 1 in 100, the 1 in 100 now 3 in 10.  The free sex movement of the 1960’s has resulted in people thinking they can get any kind of sex they want for free. And they’re doing it all the time. They’re doing it with kids. It’s hard to get accurate numbers of sexual abuse. But accounts have it as high as 20, 30, 40% 

"The stories abound. Priests abusing kids. School teachers abusing kids. Babysitters abusing kids. Everywhere. Part it is the absence of parental oversight in the training of children. And, part of it is the whole sale raw eros sex on MTV and the whole music culture. Part of it is the lack of phileo love, agape love, and all that is left is animalistic physical copulation. Whatever the cause, the consequences of this free sex, this fornicating sexual abuse culture, the consequences of this stuff is just devastating. The purity has been stripped away."

And, just after the 5:30 mark he says,

"Just horrific to see what is happening. And of course I believe this has been increasing over the last 30-40 years. This kind of thing was not happening as much 100 years ago." 

Dorscht follows this statement by saying,

"No, and you can blame the internet for that. Blame media influences and parents letting their guards down with their children and not protecting them the way they need to be."

Does Swanson realize that while avenues for reporting sexual abuse existed in the 1800's, the response to those reports were very different than today's response. Also, means of storing numbers for statistical analysis did not exist in the 1800's. How about the fact that there really was not a clear definition of child abuse in the 1800's or child abuse reporting laws or laws set in place to help protect victims. 

My only other note to Swanson is that if you are going to supply a fact in the form of a percentage of something happening, please make sure you do your homework and make it very clear to the listener. This "20, 30, 40%" of reported abuse does your listener no good. Let them know the facts up front.

2. Swanson wants to deal with the problem of guilt. Rightfully so. Children who have been sexually abused may feel guilty about their participation in the act, or in their lack of ability to stop the abuse from happening. Just after the 13 minute mark he says,

"You know, some Christian perspectives of psychology will tell us that man suffers from guilt and often he will resort to masochism or sadism, that is hurting themselves or hurting others, as a means of atonement. Because, of course, guilt cries out for atonement. And when people try to self atone for that guilt, by mean of masochism or sadism, they are denying the atonement of the son of God who came to atone for those sins. And that in itself is a sin, right Keith? If we don’t go to Christ and say, 'Hey, your atonement is sufficient for me,' you’re denying his offering."

So Swanson wants to heap on more guilt for a person who is trying to deal with their abuse. (Shaking my head) In essence, he is saying, "If you don't rely on Christ, you are sinning." I'm sure this extra layer of guilt will be helpful for the victim.

3. Bitterness - One of my least favorite words. Swanson wants to deal with it though. Just after the 14:30 minute mark he says,

"Well, Keith, there’s also the issue of bitterness. Perhaps we should talk about this as well. This is, of course, carrying other people’s sins and holding them against them. How often do you see this problem of bitterness where they hold this bitterness against the violator?"

 Dorscht responded at the 15 minute mark with,

"They’re holding that bitterness. Every single week in the counseling office those people are holding on to that bitterness. The problem is too often that the perpetrator is out of their reach and not receiving any of that bitterness. And, again, it can turn back on them. Or turn back on a spouse, or to parents. A girl will have anger issues with a father or a brother, and they may wonder where that’s coming from. And those people are paying."

Swanson continues the thought after the 16 minute mark,

"And, you know, as we bring the guilt and the bitterness together, this is precisely what Jesus puts in the Lord’s prayer when he says, 'Forgive us our debts, our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.' So, Keith, I think that these things come together in the counseling situation where we go to the cross of Christ. Yes, we drop our sins there, but while we’re there, we drop everybody else’s sins too. It’s almost as if the bitter person, the guilty person, is holding two burdens. He’s got his own sins, and then he’s got everybody else’s sins. I don’t think anybody can carry that much."

It is important to note that Dorscht is identified as a "Biblical" counselor. I don't have any training in Biblical counseling, so I'm not exactly sure how a Biblical counselor works in a therapy session. What I have heard, though, is that Biblical counselors stress the need for a victim to forgive a perpetrator. Dorscht confirms this at the 17:30 mark:

"When they forgive that person, I’ve seen people instantly, when they pray, 'God I forgive that person.' And they open their eyes, they look at me, and they say, 'Can I pray for that person?' And I say, 'Why would you want to do that?' Just to kind of test them. They say, 'Because I know how much I’ve been forgiven. And I know now how hurting that person must have been for them to hurt me.' And not in every case does this happen. But, I think people can get to that point where they can say, 'I want to pray for them because they are hurting also.' And that is a sign of genuine heart-level forgiveness. They have compassion. If that person needed a meal or needed a cup of water, that person is free to give that to them. That’s a minimum requirement."

KS: "Wow! That’s true deliverance. And, that’s walking in Jesus’ ways when he says, 'Pray for those who despitefully [sic] use you.' And, if there is anybody who would despitefully [sic] use somebody, that would certainly be one who sexually abuses. And, to pray for that person is exactly what Jesus wants to see happen there."

I'm not downplaying anyone who says that they are able to forgive someone who has victimized them. If they are able to say and do that, then more power to them. However, some people may never be able to forgive the person who abused them. I would never consider that person bitter, and I would never question their faith. I would also never say a person needs to forgive their abuser because they were hurting too. There is never a good excuse for someone to sexually abuse another person. Saying that a victim is bitter because they are unable to forgive the perpetrator is another way of placing guilt and shame on a victim.

4. Going back up to point #1, did anyone else realize that Swanson never states that parents may be the ones who are sexually abusing their kids? He mentions priests, school teachers and babysitters, but not once in this radio show does he admit that a parent may abuse their child. 

Just after the 18:30 mark, Swanson asks Dorscht what a parent should do when a child tells them that they have been sexually abused. Dorscht's advice is to first allow their child to talk openly about what happened; to hold them and cry with them. Then at the 20 minute mark he says,

"You’ll want to report something to authorities if that’s appropriate and necessary. You want to warn anyone else who may be in danger. Again, I said there’s a 90% chance that you know the person who abused your child, so you might know other people that could be in danger."

Of course it's "appropriate" to report sexual abuse to the authorities!!! Along with being there for your child, this should be the first thing a parent should do - even if it means that your spouse is the perpetrator of the abuse.

5. Toward the end of the program, Swanson talks about the cold, hard reality of sin in the world. Honestly, at this point in the program I started getting an uneasy feeling and here is where Swanson's voice starts to grate on me. Just after the 20:30 minute mark he says,

"And, Keith, I think the cold, hard reality of sin and this sinful world comes home to us. Not just in the case of sexual abuse, but when the family has been robbed. You know, when somebody has broken into our house or into our car and stolen our things. Or, even when we have a horrible disease or when somebody dies in the family. I mean, you know, it’s not as if these people who have been sexually abused are the only ones who have suffered the consequences of sin."

Okay, "these people??!!" How condescending are those words toward a victim of sexual abuse? I would never refer anyone to Swanson for counseling. I do not think he has the ability to feel empathy or compassion toward someone who is suffering.

He brings in another illustration to emphasize his "cold, hard facts" about sin in the world. This is just after the 21 minute mark:

"And the cold, hard reality of that sinful world comes home at certain times in our children’s lives. In fact, just yesterday, two little bunnies died that we were trying to take care of that we found in the wild all by themselves. And my little daughters were crying. Oh, it was such a hard thing to see the little bunnies die. And they’re still recovering this morning.  You know, we had to tell them, this is what happened when man sinned against God. This is what sin has brought into the world. Little bunnies die. This is the real facts of the matter. But, the hope is in Jesus. We’ve got to give them hope, don’t we Keith?"

Creepy. Dead little bunnies. 

And to suggest sexual abuse is one of the the cold, hard realities of a sinful world that enters our children's lives is horrendous.

*Please note: In my transcription I may have missed some words, and I intentionally did not include “filler” words (ummm…, and, or any repetitive words). Even though I left out the filler words, I maintained the cohesive thought of the speaker.*

Understanding culture

I recently finished some training for a volunteer program that I will be starting soon. One of the speakers spent time focusing on cultural compentency. It was an excellent presentation and it had my mind spinning. The entire time I could only think about how a lot of ultra-conservative, fundamental Christian churches and leaders definitely have their own distinct culture. To set the tone of how this blog may go from time to time, I would like to spend this first post discussing culture.

Culture, as defined by the presenter, is the learned shared patterns of values, beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, norms, traditions, and practices of a group of people. Culture shapes how people think, feel, act and perceive the world around them.

I immediately applied this definition to try to understand one particular Christian homeschool leader, Kevin Swanson. Now, believe me, I am not a follower of Swanson's ideas. In fact, when I homeschooled I never followed any of the views of the ultra-conservative homeschool folks. And, believe me, they are out there! One only has to go to a state Christian homeschool convention to find them. The folks that Kevin Swanson "minister" to are definitely a unique culture.

I could easily get off-topic, so back to culture. I want to cover five areas that culture leads to. I will provide examples of each area based upon a radio broadcast of Kevin Swanson's on his Generations with Vision show from March 6, 2014 titled "Missionaries and Birth Control.*" It is my hope that we can have a better understanding of other groups when we encounter their words or actions.

1. A given culture gives birth to a belief system.

A belief system is simply the basis of a set of beliefs. Swanson's belief system is based upon a Judeo-Christian background. Swanson's belief system is based upon the Bible and he will often say that his words and advice are "Biblical."

2. A belief system gives birth to a world view.

A world view is an overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world. Again, Swanson's belief system is based upon the Bible, therefore, anything in the world that does not align with the Bible is sinful. Just after the 15 minute mark, Swanson's co-host, Steve Vaughn, says this:

"Marriage is for illustration and procreation. That is what the Bible says about marriage. It illustrates Christ and his church and it propagates the human race. That is why we have marriage. So if you’re going to get married,the only way to not have children then is to actually deal with birth control."

I use this illustration because Swanson and Vaughn have a world view about marriage based upon the Bible. Because of their world view, they believe that the use of birth control is unbiblical because it prevents procreation.

3. A world view gives birth to values.

Values are a person's principles or standards of behavior or one's judgment of what is important in life. I am sure that Swanson values a lot in life, but I am going to focus on his value of faith for the time being. At the 16:30 minute mark, Swanson says the following:

"You can have 14 kids without faith. That’s bad. That’s really bad. You can take birth control without faith. That’s a sin too. You gotta have faith. It takes faith to have a child. That to me is really important, Steve. That’s fundamental. Now, as it turns out, God wants faith for everything that we do. The churches out there that have a birth rate of 2.5, or 4.5, or 6.8 may be doing pretty well. But when you walk into a church as I did in Denver a year or two ago and saw a bulletin board of all the families. And I saw 147 adults and 3 kids. And I said to myself, “Wow! Birth rate of .23. Not good."

SV: "Yeah"

KS: "But, my first impression is not, wow that birth rate is bad. My first impression is faithless church."

We don't know anything about this church except what Swanson has told us. There are so many questions to ask. What if this is an older congregation? What makes him think that the families in this church are purposely not having children? All that we know is that Swanson's world view says that people of child bearing years should be having children.

4. A value gives birth to specific attitudes.

Attitudes are a settled way of thinking or feeling about someone or something, typically one that is reflected in a person's behavior.

Do you spot Swanson's attitude up above? How about in these words that follow the above?

"Where is the faith? Now, this denomination has softened on homosexuality. Softened on feminism. Softened on women preachers, on women elders. It's soft on a lot of things. In other words, its faithlessness reveals itself in 10,000 ways. You don't have to be an ignoramus. You can be an ignoramus and pretty much understand that this church is lacking in faith. The faith is dying, DYing, DYING in this church and the birth rate is one indication of that."

Because the birth rate is low at that poor Denver church, they are faithless people. This attitude is exacerbated because according to Swanson, this church has softened on other areas - other areas that go against his belief system, world view and values. (By the way, I have found that when Swanson finds deep sin or fault in people, he tends to dramatize a bit. Thus, the church was not only dying, but by the tone of his voice they were deep in the grave.)

5. An attitude gives birth to behavior.

Behavior is the way in which one acts or conducts oneself, especially to others. Going back to birth control, Swanson says the following at the 18 minute mark:

"If you have faithless pastor, faithless leaders, faithless everything you’re going to wind up with faithless women because it takes faith to have children. 1 Timothy 2, this is God’s vision for womanhood: meek and quiet spirit, modest in dress (all the things that are really unpopular on your average college today).  And the very last thing Paul says is that she shall be saved in childbearing if she pursue faith and righteousness in that state. The life of faith for a lady, in general, normatively, is life of having children. Because it takes faith to have children. It takes faith to raise them. It takes faith to believe the promises for our children and not think they’re going to go over the edge and die! It takes faith to raise kids."

You can definitely feel the attitude here, but most importantly, Swanson's behavior is such that his tone is condescending if you don't have the same world view as him, you are faithless and Godless. I have heard this in several of the radio broadcasts that I have listened to.

Of course, there are so many other issues that I have with what Swanson said throughout his radio broadcast, however, my goal was to focus on the issue of culture. Understanding the culture from which Swanson comes from and perpetuates gives us a better understanding of the words that spew out of Swanson's mouth. 

Was that too harsh? Well, that's just my opinion based upon my own world view.

*I transcribed Swanson's March 6, 2014 radio broadcast starting at the 8:29 minute mark. Please note that I may have missed a word here or there. There were many instances where Swanson or Vaughn used words multiple times. I condensed those to reflect a more cohesive thought.